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Author Topic: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest

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Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« on: 29 January 2009 at 02:43 »
Rabbis may halt Vatican talks over Holocaust-denying priest

Riazat Butt, religious affairs correspondent
The Guardian, Thursday 29 January 2009

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/29/rabbis-vatican-pope-holocaust

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel has threatened to break off normal dialogue with the Vatican over its decision to lift the excommunication of a Catholic priest who claimed that no Jews died in gas chambers during the second world war.

In a letter to Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Holy See's Commission for Religious Relations with Jewry, officials from Israel's supreme religious governing body warned that without a public apology from the priest it would be "very difficult to continue dialogue with the Vatican as before". The letter called on the priest, British-born Richard Williamson, to recant his "deplorable" statement.

The letter said: "You will appreciate that under such circumstances it would be wiser for us to postpone our next meeting in Rome at the beginning of March until this matter is clarified."

It is the fiercest criticism yet of the papal decree, issued last weekend, aimed at rehabilitating members of a traditionalist Catholic order - the Society of St Pius X - one of whose clerics is a Holocaust denier.

Williamson, who now lives in Argentina, had claimed in a television interview that historical evidence was "hugely against six million having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler ... I believe there were no gas chambers."

Alongside three bishops, Williamson was excommunicated 20 years ago after being consecrated by French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent.

The letter, signed by Oded Weiner, the director of the Chief Rabbinate, said: "Even if the move in itself was not intended in any way to relate to the church's relationship with the Jewish people, when it involves the embrace of someone who publicly expresses such odious and outrageous opinions, then it definitely does affect our relationship."

Yesterday Weiner told the Guardian the Rabbinate was demanding an explanation from the Vatican. "This relationship is very important for us and the Holy See. We have not cut ties with them. We are saying the matter has to be clarified. They are aware of the pain and sensitivity and they will consider it and send it up to the highest authorities."

His comments came as the pope made his first public remarks on interfaith relations. Referring to his recent commemoration of the Holocaust, he highlighted how at Auschwitz "millions of Jews were cruelly massacred, innocent victims of blind racial and religious hatred". At his weekly audience, yesterday Benedict XVI told thousands: "I once again affectionately express my full and indisputable solidarity with our brothers and sisters who received the first covenant. I trust that the memory of the Shoah will induce humankind to reflect upon the unpredictable power of evil when it conquers the heart of man."

The row, however, shows no immediate sign of abating. The Nobel peace prize winner and death camp survivor, Elie Wiesel, said that the pope, by lifting the excommunications, had given credence to "the most vulgar aspect of antisemitism".

In an interview with Reuters, Wiesel said: "What does the pope think we feel when he did that?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/judaism

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/race
Noli Nothis Permittere Te Terere
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Reverend Cailen Cambeul, P.M.E.
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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #1 on: 03 February 2009 at 11:49 »

Cowardly Catholic Xians, that's who.


The Chief Rabbinate of Israel has threatened to break off normal dialogue with the Vatican over its decision to lift the excommunication of a Catholic priest who claimed that no Jews died in gas chambers during the second world war.
---

HAD QUESTIONED HOLY DOGMA
 
Bishop recants
denial of The Holocaust®
 
Following pressure from Israel's ambassador to the Holy See and a
blunt statement by Vatican spokesman Frederico Lombardi Friday
that "anyone who denies the Holocaust® denies the Christian faith
itself,"
dissident Bishop Richard Williamson bowed before this holiest
of Church dogmas
and recanted his earlier remarks questioning the
accuracy of Jewish casualty figures during the Second World War.
   
Bishop who denied Holocaust® apologizes to pope
By FRANCES D'EMILIO
Associated Press  Saturday, 30 January 2009
 
VATICAN CITY — A bishop recently rehabilitated by Pope Benedict XVI
expressed regret Friday to the pontiff for the "distress and problems"
he caused by denying the Holocaust®.

In a letter to the Vatican, Bishop Richard Williamson, who recently
denied in a TV interview that 6 million Jews were murdered during
the Holocaust®, called his remarks "imprudent."

The letter was posted on Williamson's personal blog and addressed
to Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, who has been dealing with the
rehabilitation of Williamson and other renegade bishops who had been
excommunicated.

The Holocaust® denial had outraged Jewish groups and many others.
It was not immediately clear if Williamson's letter, which contained no
apology for the content of his remarks, would ease that anger.

"Amidst this tremendous media storm stirred up by imprudent remarks
of mine on Swedish television, I beg of you to accept, only as is
properly respectful, my sincere regrets for having caused to yourself
and to the Holy Father so much unnecessary distress and problems,"
Williamson wrote.
 
Israeli ambassador pleased with Vatican relations

Papal spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said he had "nothing to
say about this letter. Everyone can evaluate it as they see fit."

Lombardi said he didn't know if the pope or the cardinal had seen it.

The bishop in the letter also offered the pope his "sincere personal
thanks" for lifting the excommunication.

The Vatican had imposed the Church's most severe discipline,
excommunication, on Williamson and three other bishops 20 years ago
because they had been elevated to bishop's rank by a renegade,
ultraconservative prelate, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

In his letter on the blog, Williamson promised to "offer a Mass" for
Benedict and Castrillon Hoyos.

Earlier Friday, Israel's ambassador to the Holy See, Mordechai Levy,
said the Jewish state has good relations with the Vatican, despite
the flap over Williamson's comments.

The four rehabilitated bishops belong to the ultraconservative Society
of St. Pius X, which Lefebvre founded because he rejected the
modernizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s.
 
Pressure from members of US Congress

On Wednesday, Benedict expressed what he called his unquestioned
solidarity with Jews and issued a stern warning against any denial
of the full horrors of the Nazi genocide.

In a letter dated Thursday, some 50 Catholic members of the US
Congress wrote to Benedict to express their "deep concerns" over
the pope's decision to reinstate Williamson while the bishop was
denying that the Holocaust® occurred.

"We do not question your reasons for revoking the excommunication
of Bishop Williamson or your right to do so, but we fail to understand
why the revocation was not accompanied by an emphatic public
rejection of his denial of the Holocaust®," the letter said.

The bishop's remarks about the Holocaust® "echo those of neo-Nazis,
Islamist extremists, racists and others who choose hatred and violence
over peaceful co-existence among peoples of all races and ethnicities,"
the lawmakers said, adding that they welcomed Benedict's expression
of solidarity with the Jewish people.

Benedict visited Washington during a pilgrimage to the United States
last spring.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=105&sid=1572733

Former Hasta Primus for P.M. Ben Klassen with the Church of the Creator at North Carolina and later the right-hand man for Dr William Pierce with the National Alliance. Currently the Chairman of the National Alliance.


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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #2 on: 03 February 2009 at 12:42 »
Is it just me or do other people here generally think that any kind of diplomacy with jews is a waste of time ?

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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #3 on: 05 February 2009 at 00:18 »
I was struck that the difference between Judaism and Christianity was exposed. The Pope so forgiving, the Jews so hateful and vengeful.
Formerly with the Premier Church of Creativity under Ben Klassen, PM.

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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2009 at 02:21 »
I was struck that the difference between Judaism and Christianity was exposed. The Pope so forgiving, the Jews so hateful and vengeful.

We outnumber the Jew at least 30:1 in the US. We are the sleeping wolf NOT a flock of docile Xian lambkins. And as Klassen used to like to say, "The wolf does not feed the bunny rabbit." It's just not natural.  8)
Former Hasta Primus for P.M. Ben Klassen with the Church of the Creator at North Carolina and later the right-hand man for Dr William Pierce with the National Alliance. Currently the Chairman of the National Alliance.


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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #5 on: 06 March 2009 at 00:53 »
Is it just me or do other people here generally think that any kind of diplomacy with jews is a waste of time ?

Jews are as scorpions, Quicksilver. And, unfortunately, our Race has been like stupid frogs. Remember Aesop's Fable:

The Scorpion and the Frog

  A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

  The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

      Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

 
This case about Bishop Williamson is instructive of the power of religions. It's a good one for Creators to follow and learn from. Here's an excellent article by long time revisionist historian (or "forensic historian," if you prefer), Mark Weber:
---

http://www.ihr.org/williamson_march09.html

Bishop Williamson and `Holocaust Denial’: Why the Uproar?

By Mark Weber

Institute for Historical Review

March 9, 2009

The furor over the “Holocaust denial” remarks of Bishop Richard Williamson is not a controversy about historical truth, the role of history in society, anti-Semitism or “hate.” This affair is really about power -- about those who really wield it in our culture, as well as about how and why that power is used.

Williamson is a 68-year-old English-born traditionalist Roman Catholic who has been fiercely criticized in recent weeks for his remarks about the Holocaust. In a Swedish television interview, which has been widely viewed on the Internet and quoted widely in the media, he expressed the view that no more than 300,000 Jews died in German concentration camps during World War II, and none were killed in gas chambers.

The uproar, which has received wide media attention, began several weeks ago after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of Williamson and three other renegade bishops as part of an effort to heal a rift with a conservative Roman Catholic group that opposes liberalizing trends within the Church.

As the controversy grew, Williamson was expelled from Argentina, where he had been living, and German authorities announced that they might bring criminal charges against him. In Germany and some other European countries it is a crime to deny, justify or play down World War II genocide of Europe’s Jews. German authorities claim the right to prosecute anyone, anywhere who makes “denial” remarks that can be accessed through the Internet. After returning to his native Britain, Williamson issued an apology for the “harm and hurt” caused by his remarks, but he did not retract them.

Bishop Williamson holds unconventional views on a range of issues. He has repeatedly said that Nine-Eleven was an “inside job,” and believes that the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks were organized by the US government. But no one is demanding that Williamson apologize for charging that high-level US officials carried out mass murder of their own fellow citizens. Indeed, if the US government were to insist on such an apology, it would rightly be regarded as an act of arrogant effrontery.

Whereas Williamson’s non-conformist views about crimes committed seven years ago are considered strange but inconsequential, his dissident views about the treatment of Europe’s Jews more than half a century ago are treated as “thought crimes.” Expressions of disbelief about “The Holocaust” are swiftly and fiercely punished. Holocaust “blasphemy” is routinely treated as more offensive than verbal assaults against the well-established religious beliefs and sensibilities of many millions in Europe and around the world. In short: Jewish feelings and sensibilities are regarded as more important than those of non-Jews.

In our society, “The Holocaust” is held up as an icon of virtually religious stature. Jewish leaders, supported by many non-Jewish political figures and much of the media, insist on everyone’s dogmatic affirmation of this totem -- one that is used to further Jewish-Zionist interests.

Tony Judt, a Jewish scholar who serves as director of the Remarque Institute at New York University, has written:

“The Shoah [Hebrew term for Holocaust] is frequently exploited in America and Israel to deflect and forbid any criticism of Israel. Indeed, the Holocaust of Europe's Jews is nowadays exploited thrice over: It gives American Jews in particular a unique, retrospective ‘victim identity’; it allows Israel to trump any other nation's sufferings (and justify its own excesses) with the claim that the Jewish catastrophe was unique and incompa­rable; and (in contradiction to the first two) it is adduced as an all-purpose metaphor for evil -- anywhere, everywhere and always -- and taught to schoolchildren all over America and Europe without any reference to context or cause. This modern instrumentalization of the Holocaust for political advantage is ethically disreputable and politically imprudent.”

Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar who teaches at DePaul University in Chicago, writes in his bestselling book, The Holocaust Industry, that “invoking The Holocaust” is “a ploy to delegitimize all criticism of Jews.” He adds: “By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure... Organized American Jewry has ex­ploited the Nazi holocaust to deflect criticism of Israel's and its own morally indefensible policies.”

In Israel, says Tom Segev, a prominent Israeli journalist and author, the Holocaust has become “an object of worship.” Moreover, he writes, “the 'heritage of the Holocaust,’ as it is taught in [Israel’s] schools and fostered in national memorial ceremonies, often encourages insular chauvinism and a sense that the Nazi extermination of the Jews justifies any act that seems to contribute to Israel’s security, including the oppression of the population in the territories occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War.”

The Holocaust remembrance campaign reflects an arrogant view of Jews as a special and superior people. Abraham Foxman, head of the Anti-Defamation League -- one of the most influential Zionist groups — has declared:  “...The Holocaust is something different. It is a singular event. It is not simply one example of genocide but a near successful attempt on the life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God himself. It is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as recorded in the Bible; and like its direct op­posite, which is relived weekly with the Sabbath and yearly with the Torah, it must be remembered from generation to gen­eration.”

The Williamson affair underscores a great social-political danger -- not the danger of dissent or of historical error, but rather of ruthlessly enforced orthodoxy. Far more harmful than Williamson’s unconventional views about crimes committed, or not committed, more than 60 years ago is the well-organized global campaign, backed with the power of police and courts, that demands submission to an instrumentalized and dogmatically-presented view of one chapter of history. This campaign is an expression of a hypocritical double standard that makes a mockery of the pretentions of “democratic” states to uphold freedom of speech and expression.

A society’s real hierarchy of values, and of power, is shown by what it prohibits. The Williamson affair underscores a well-entrenched Jewish-Zionist bias in the cultural life of modern Western society, and reminds us, once again, of the power behind that bias. 
Former Hasta Primus for P.M. Ben Klassen with the Church of the Creator at North Carolina and later the right-hand man for Dr William Pierce with the National Alliance. Currently the Chairman of the National Alliance.


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Re: Rabbis Halt Vatican Talks over Holocaust-Truther Priest
« Reply #6 on: 06 March 2009 at 13:19 »

What The Holocaust
Debate Is Really About
Terrell E. Arnold
3-2-9
 

The recent attempted defrocking of a Catholic Bishop on a charge of "Holocaust denial" brings to the fore once again the need to review the history of World War II in a properly detached fashion. A horrible truth is that more than 55 million people died in that war and the overwhelming majority of them were not Jews. That is the holocaust we must all remember. In addition to those deaths, World War II caused the virtual destruction of Western Europe, and gave newborn communism, the invention of Jewish politicians in Russia, its chance to prove it did not work. The victory went to the best and most determined killers, and various victims tell their stories in their own ways. That is a dubious privilege of all those who suffered greatly. It gave no one the right to a story that cannot be examined in the pursuit of truth and honest scholarship.
 
Yet, examining the official story of the Holocaust is a crime in Germany. It is not a crime in the United States as such, but one historian, Ernst Zundel, married to an American citizen, was summarily picked up in the United States, sent to Canada and imprisoned without conviction of any crime. He was then bundled up and sent to Germany, but moved covertly, not through normal legal processes of extradition.
 
In Germany Zundel has been tried in a German court and imprisoned, but he has not been allowed to present arguments in his own defense, and in fact his attorney has been imprisoned for attempting to enter such defenses in the court record. Zundel shares this fate with two others who have been sent to Germany from other European countries, and a move is now afoot to make Holocaust denial a crime throughout the European Community. If that is accomplished, the European Community will have prohibited any scholar to examine any part of the official Holocaust story. To do so will result in imprisonment with a trial in which the defendant can submit no evidence of the history explored and the findings made, regardless of how factually demonstrable they may be.
 
Much of the controversy stems from the fact that some elements of the story have simply been proven false. For example, the gruesome tale of human skin having been used to make leather was dropped after it proved impossible to provide any evidence. It is also reasonably clear that there were no gas furnaces for extermination at Auschwitz, and that part of the story has been dropped. General George S. Patton, then in charge of occupied Germany, disbelieved several aspects of the story and may have been killed because of his outspoken comments. Disturbing stories have emerged that confessions at Nuremberg were obtained by torture. The Red Cross, which had access to the camps in question, has been circumspect in its comments, but has yet to bless the official version of the Holocaust.
 
The numbers really need to be reexamined: The six million figure commonly used in the official story first appeared as the number of displaced Jews in 1919, before Hitler came along, and before the carnage of World War II. The plaques at Auschwitz tell an evolving story. As reported by observers, the first plaque at Auschwitz said 4 million dead. That was replaced by one that said 3 million dead. That was replaced by a plaque that said 2 million dead. The plaque now reads 1 million dead. Those changes reduce the number of victims at all reported sites to less than 3 million. Serious scholarly research obviously is needed to confirm the number, if that indeed is possible. _See Endnote_
 
The problem with the debate as pursued is that it does not honor the dead. Over fifty million innocent people died in this carnage. Concentration camps in Germany, Poland, the Ukraine and elsewhere do credit to neither the Hitler government in Germany nor the Stalin government in Russia, or their numerous local collaborators. US and allied carpet bombing of German cities such as Dresden deserve equal opprobrium. Millions of young men and women in uniform died or were wounded in those engagements, and many parts of the story have yet to be accurately chronicled.
 
The history of Jewish migration to Palestine needs to be understood to have a complete picture of what happened to Jews at the end of World War II. Many were bundled by occupying authorities into former concentration camps and other facilities, some taken by expelling German residents. Then many Jews were "offered" the take- it-or-leave-it chance to migrate to Palestine.
 
There is no question that, as chronicled by Jewish writers, the official Holocaust story has been used and abused by the Zionists to justify their establishment of a Jewish national home in already fully occupied Palestine. The story has been used continuously ever since World War II to justify or thwart criticism of their continuing confiscation of Palestinian lands and their systematic killing, imprisonment, harassment and confinement of the Palestinian people. Even a prominent Jewish historian, Ilan Pappe, has described this entire process as ethnic cleansing that in international law is a war crime.
 
It has become increasingly clear that doubts about the official Holocaust story will not go away and, in fact, are growing. The reactions are perhaps a worst case version of "Methinks thou dost protest too much," generated in part by the fact that the official version of the Holocaust is the only story in human history that cannot be examined. Very questionable "hate crime" laws are being pursued in Europe, Canada and the United States in a primary effort to quash discussion of the Holocaust and to hush criticism of Israeli behavior in Palestine.
 
The matter has reached a point where the truth must out to stop the destructive behavior of concealment. Key elements of the story are inescapably true. Many Jews and many more other people were picked up and confined to stifle dissent or outright rebellion against the Nazi cause. Those travesties were mirrored in Russia and neighboring states as Stalin tried to suppress resistance to the emergent system of communism. Many of the would-be victims took what they could and left, enduring unimaginable hardships that brought them to remote places such as Shanghai, and eventually to the United States.
 
Both history and humanity will be better served by an open, honest examination of all events of World War II and its aftermath. The lessons we should all take from that gruesome history are badly distorted by singular focus on the story of a group of people who represent only a minority of the victims. No one wants to deny the cruel realities of that experience. Yet, as aptly expressed by the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but no one is entitled to his own facts."
 
_End Note_
 
For solid background on the diminishing death count at Auschwitz, readers should read
 
"Auschwitz ­ The Final Count" by Michael Collins Piper at www.rense.com/general62/aauc.htm
Former Hasta Primus for P.M. Ben Klassen with the Church of the Creator at North Carolina and later the right-hand man for Dr William Pierce with the National Alliance. Currently the Chairman of the National Alliance.


 

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