Creator Forum - Racial Loyalty News Online
Announcements & General Jabber => General Jabber => Topic started by: Rev.WillWilliams on Sat 14 Aug 2010
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=114964
Good discussion , thanks for posting.
Quote from: Rev.Cook on Sat 21 Aug 2010
Good discussion, thanks for posting.
You're quite welcome, Rev. Cook. Every Creator should find the subject of religious discourse, as it relates to White racial loyalty, his domain, his area of expertise; we are the preeminent experts.
You will find this current discussion interesting as well. http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=122985 (http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=122985) Alex Linder, owner of Vanguard News Network, is "one of us" in spirit, and like many of us is a former National Alliance member. However he doesn't like yours truly, so I am banned from his forum and can't respond to this Christian, Andrew, who challenges Mr. Linder to explain his anti-Xianity stance.
Perhaps we have someone here at CA who is registered at VNN forum and can give the measured Creator position without unnecessarily offending our Christian cousins? The Alliance members who post the best responses at VNN in this thread will get guaranteed "rep" points. :-*
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Andrew
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
In Defence of Christianity - Attention, A Linder!
Alex
I've noticed that lately you've been saying over and over again that Christians are stupid, ignorant, insane etc. I get the feeling you've always been anti-Christian but you seem to be increasing the anti-Christian attacks lately, so I'm moved to respond....
My first point is: do you think E Michael Jones is stupid, ignorant and insane? Do you really think that? I would say he's one of the least stupid, ignorant or insane publishers/writers/intellectuals around today, and he's a hardcore Catholic (for those who aren't familiar with him). He's actually the opposite of these things – obviously. That's self-evident to anyone who knows anything about him – as you do. Plus, he actually achieves things out there in the real world – publishing a magazine, writing books, and influencing the public discourse. Don't you agree? How then, are all Christians stupid and insane etc?
To discuss the point more generally: like it or not, Christianity (especially Catholicism) is responsible for a hell of a lot of the good, basic things in our culture, e.g. Western science, hospitals, and the University system, to name a few. Not to mention our basic ethical foundation and moral outlook, in the Western (White) world. If you don't believe me, see the following book:
Thomas E. Woods Jr, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.
I'm curious – since you reject Christianity - what do you base your moral outlook on? I used to listen to Goyfire back when you were doing those broadcasts - I'm sure I remember you saying you were against homosexuality, abortion and sexual promiscuity. Also I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you're against contraception - at least I remember a comment along the lines of "using a condom is like fucking a plastic bag" (that's a great quote BTW!) So, what do you base your opposition to these things on? Interestingly, the Catholic Church opposes all these things. Even more interestingly, it's quite possible to be in favour of all these things and be a "White Nationalist" - there's no inconsistency there at all. So why, exactly, are you against these cultural phenomena - all of which were practised by the ancient Greeks and Romans - paragons of pagan White culture?
And - what does "White Nationalism" have to offer in the bigger scheme of things? Christianity (Catholicism) offers a total world-view - an explanation of the world and universe, and the origins, reason and meaning behind it all. It offers meaning to life, and life after death, no less!
In my opinion "White Nationalism" is a worthy cause and must be pursued – Whites are under attack today, and must defend themselves. But isn't it ultimately a bit limited – taken in isolation, by itself, devoid of any other meaning, rationale or other ideology? Where does it lead? What happens after you've achieved your White "ethno-state" (that's if you do – which is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, sad to say)? The whole pro-White thing is important and necessary, but it's a bit limited in-and-of itself, I think.
Being a "White Nationalist" leader or intellectual is like being Secretary of "The Burmese Cat Preservation Society" (or something along those lines). It's all well and good, and it's a worthy and necessary cause, but once you've secured the existence of Burmese cats and a future for their kittens, then what? That's where "White Nationalism" falls short....
You may argue that organised Christianity (including the Catholic Church) has been complicit in some of the most destructive social/cultural trends over the last 50 years or so. And you would be right. But is that because of something wrong or untrue in Christianity itself? Or it is because some (or even many) of the people within Christian institutions have lately decided to swim with the destructive post-1960 cultural tide, for all sorts of reasons? I suspect the latter. And there are a lot of reasons for this – where do we start ? Do any of these reasons fatally and finally undermine Christianity itself, as opposed to being extrinsic forces attacking Christianity? No. And there are plenty of worldly and theological reasons for these attacks – no need to get into them all here (a lot of this has been discussed already on VNN over the years).
Don't forget - Christianity (the Catholic Church) has been a bulwark of Western values and civilisation (and most of the things "White Nationalists" hold dear) for many centuries. Many would argue it actually created Western values and civilisation! Europe, the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand etc were basically "fine" from a "While Nationalist" point of new up until the mid to late 1960's (more or less). Christianity was the backbone of European culture and civilisation from the very early days – going back over many, many hundreds of years. It's only gone wrong in the last 5 minutes - so is Christianity really to blame? As for the newer, formerly-White countries such as the USA, Canada, Australia etc – Christianity was part of the blood and marrow of such societies from the very beginning, but they've only gone off the rails in recent decades. Again – is Christianity to blame, or is it something else? I think it's something else.
Finally – you may wish to say that Christianity is ridiculous and absurd, because it relies on the supernatural, i.e. Christ rising from the dead and other miracles. I could go on about this particular point for pages, but I won't. I'll just say two things here:
1) aren't the world, the universe and human life, all somehow miraculous? How do you explain them? What's your world-view or grand explanation, in this regard? Do you even have one?
2) over the past 2000 years, many thinkers and writers who are more intelligent and educated than me or you (probably) have dealt with these questions, and have put up a convincing defence of the Christian/theist position. I'm happy to provide further details if you wish. But one reference I can provide off the top of my head is the following:
Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli, Handbook of Catholic Apologetics: Reasoned Answers to Questions of Faith.
If you read parts of this book with an open mind, you may find it hard to dismiss Christianity as insane, stupid and ludicrous, etc.
I realise this is an argument I can't possibly win, and this post will probably be ignored or ridiculed – so be it. I just felt I had to say something in view of all the anti-Christian attacks, lately.
In closing – thank you for providing VNN forum, it's great to have a free-speech forum where some of the most serious problems of our day can be discussed. Sadly, this is rare. Also – I hope you'll think about doing some podcasting again sometime - you have real talent as a broadcaster and it's a shame you seem to have given up on this!
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Europe is the faith and the faith is Europe - Hilaire Belloc ---end Andrew's post---